Tsumego 25 Kyu – Gotta Kill Me Some Stones
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This is the first in a series of tsumego walkthroughs for beginners. This problem is rated at 25 kyu. If you’re new to working tsumego (life & death problems) then you might want to watch my video on how to work them effectively. Also, if you’re interested in other tsumego problems, you can visit my Tsumego archive page.
For this problem, see if you can spot the correct opening move and try to read out the possible variations until you find one that works for black. Then, view the video below to see the solution and hear my comments.
Black to Play . . .
Warning!
Don’t scroll down unless you are ready to view the answer to the problem!
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I’d love to hear what you think about this walk through. Please leave a comment. Also, if you have a tsumego problem that you run across in your own study that you think others would enjoy, send it to me and I’ll record a walktrhrough.
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6 Comments so far
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Don’t let the rating of the problem bother you. They are approximate. Besides, when you’re in the double digit kyu space you are still adding conceptual skills to your toolbox. This type of reading, especially learning to focus on the indirect methods of play, is one important tool that you may not have worked with a lot yet. Trust me, not correctly solving a few 25 kyu tsumego doesn’t mean you are 27 kyu. Just keep working them and you’ll start to see more of the indirect possibilities!
Comment by RazorBrain March 19, 2009 @ 10:43Fair enough. When I say they are yours, I mean that after your save your four black stones, those two lonely stones on O12 and P11 are ripe for the picking. Since this is only a tsumego problem we don’t know if there are other white stones in the area. But if they are by themselves white would not want to expend a lot of moves trying to save them just to save them. They could however come in handy later if white were to invade on that side of the board.
It’s really relative, isn’t it. If whire had killed black’s 4 stones then the O12 and P13 stones would have been part of a powerful white position. But with black’s success in living they become much less valuable.
Comment by RazorBrain March 19, 2009 @ 10:38Thanks for the comments!
So personally I’m not confident enough to know O-12 and P-11 are mine. I may be able to predict whether or not a more advanced player could secure that space (if white tried escaping), but unfortunately the people I play know my abilities and work it against me. For example, large empty spaces that experienced players would attribute to one colour or another can be invaded due to my weakness in making the right moves.
Anyways, thanks for clarifying…and thanks for the detailed tsumego.
Comment by Christian Muise March 18, 2009 @ 19:00“but must we give up on O-15?”
Yes.
“If White counters N-13 with a move of N-15, is it worth it for black to push in with N-14?”
No, that would be a very bad move. The O15 stone is not important. The only reason for playing N14 would be to remove an eye from white. But white’s top group is strong and healthy. There is no reason why you would want to remove an eye from such a group.
O15 is basically a stone of little importance. It doesn’t matter if it lives or dies. It is just points, and not even many of those. Contrast that with the white Q13 group. Those stones are incredibly important. They are cutting black into several weak groups and when black makes sure that those get captured, all his groups gets connected and strong. That is worth a lot.
“Or just give up that nook and go for the double atari at O-11?”
It is better than N14, but still quite small.
After black extends to N13, he basically has one big strong group (as the Q13 stones essentially are captured). Those two white stones are very weak as they are touching the strong black formation.
White therefore has no real reason to save those stones as they can’t do much near the strong black stones. And likewise, black has no reason to capture them as it again just is a matter of a couple of points.
Instead you want to play else where on the board. Locally, R17 is the biggest point. The first player to play there gets a lot of points. Also, it affects the strength of the top white group. (The black stones on the other hand are practically alive so they don’t really care who plays there.)
Some of what I have said is probably to complex for a beginner. I am just trying to describe what goes through the mind of a stronger player.
Comment by Wildclaw March 18, 2009 @ 14:46I betted on the capture on top to save the group, but obviously I didn’t think 4 moves ahead.
Is this really a 25 kyu problem? Man, I must be lower than that!
Comment by Bhagwad March 18, 2009 @ 07:46So I guess this question falls under go-sin of greed, but must we give up on O-15?
It was the fact that playing N-14 (temporarily) saved both groups that led me to spend so much effort on trying to make that work (rather than just extending). If White counters N-13 with a move of N-15, is it worth it for black to push in with N-14? Or just give up that nook and go for the double atari at O-11?
If the double atari was indeed better, should the N-10 net (/is/ it a net?) be played rather than O-11?
Sorry for the questions…tsumego always seems to raise more than it answers :p
Comment by Christian Muise March 17, 2009 @ 18:43